Tuesday, June 10, 2008

Denise Green

It appears that Denise Green's lawyer entered an appeal, which was turned down.

Here are some excerpts:

"Plantiff admits that it was in 1987 that she first told her father of the abuse she claims to have suffered and that Gray was the one who abused her. Plantiff did not file her lawsuit, which was based on the abuse she suffered, until July 2007."

"Plaintiff claims Trinity Baptist Church misrepresented facts about Gray's behavior to others. . .

"Specifically, plaintiff claims:

"another alleged victim lied to the Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services, now the Department of Children and Families, about abuse she suffered as a child and did so at the urging of church leaders (a claim that conflicts with her prior, sworn deposition testimony).

"Additionally, Plaintiff claims one teacher was threatened for questioning why students were called out of class to visit with Gray and that another employee was terminated when her husband reported in 1992 that he had learned that Gray had abused a student years before."

Wow! Where is that employee? I wish she'd speak up. I kept hearing stories like this these last few years. In fact, I have asked about one teacher whom I believe might have known way back in the 1980's. That teacher has either vanished into time, or just doesn't want to be bothered. I am surprised the statement about the terminated employee made it into Denise's claim in the first place! If the lawyer does not have sworn testimony from those past employees, why would opinion and, hate to say it, 'rumor', be introduced into an official court transcript?

The deposition spoken of, where the plaintiff claimed that another alleged victim lied to the Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services, is Case No. 16-CF-2006-07704-AXXX-MA. I might post it at a future point, but it is a huge file! It was taken on April 19, 2007.

Here are some excerpts from that victim's deposition:

Q: That interview with HRS, was it just a one time interview?

A: Yes.

Q: And what did you basically tell them? Is that nothing happened?

A: It was real quick.

Q: Did you say nothing had happened?

A: They asked me questions and I basically just didn't answer their questions.

Q: Did you---did you deny abuse?

A: I - I can't remember verbatim what we discussed.

Q: What is the --- all right. Other than that conversation you've told me about, and you're not sure about the date with HRS, have you had any other conversations with either HRS or what is now called the Department of Children and Families?

A: No.

Later in the deposition:

Q: Did somebody come out. . .

A: I just --- HRS called me on the phone and asked me questions about Bob Gray.

Q: Did you --- did you tell them about french kissing---

A: No.

Q: Why not?

A: At this point, I was not ready to deal with it.


Q: Do you---as you look back on it, do have have any idea what initiated HRS contacting you?

A: I've heard that someone contacted HRS to contact me.

Q: Who have you heard did that?

A: I actually think I read it on the forum and I believe it was a guy named (NAME DELETED BY CHRISTIAN SCHOOL CONFIDENTIAL)


This is a sore point for me, and a good moment to emphasize why you should never give out phone numbers where adult survivors of clergy abuse are concerned. I also contacted the HRS in those days, and they wanted phone numbers if I believed a child's life was in immediate danger. At the time, Gray was in Germany, totally outside the jurisdiction of the HRS. As far as I knew, in my limited scope, since Gray was not at Trinity, children were probably not in danger during that era of Trinity history.

Remember, I didn't know then what I know now about abuse, and how, if not confronted, it breeds an environment for other abusers. That said, they only wanted a phone number if I believed children were in immediate danger. Since I did not believe that was the case, I did not give out any phone numbers. Even now, as I see what can happen when a victim is outted before she, or he, is ready to talk, I would still err on not giving out phone numbers.

Look at the fruits of that decision! Look how it impacted the case!

She wasn't ready to talk, and that made it into the record and created the impression she was 'lying'. Giving out the phone number of a victim, before that victim is ready, is the most irresponsible thing a so called 'supporter of victims' can do.

There are people who believe that the woman quoted in this deposition 'lied'. I've never taken that view, and still don't. Victims of any kind of abuse need to realize that when they tell someone, that person will take the news harder than the actual victim who has been abused. Be very careful who you tell!

Supporters need to realize that they are simply that: supporters. They are not white knights trying to rectify a wrong situation. Like the upcoming movie about the clumsy superhero, Hancock, a supporter of victims can sometimes make things worse by jumping the gun and shooting from the hip.

That was very irresponsible of that person to give out the phone number of this victim.

I might write about this at a future point.

Or, maybe not.

When I think about some of the irresponsible actions on the part of those who claim to support the victims, it makes me very disappointed. I try not to get angry. I tell myself, "This is not your battle."

When I read the spin, from the latest decision regarding Denise Green's case, that this victim 'lied to the HRS', I, as a supporter of victims, feel betrayed and I'm not even a part of the case!

Didn't anybody even think about how an adult victim would respond to a visit from the HRS out of the clear blue?

Didn't anybody read the victim's deposition before filling out the court papers?

Didn't anybody. . .think?

This isn't my battle. . .but I still can't help feeling a little angry. . .

Click below to read the latest decision regarding Denise Green:

Denise Green, 6/5/2008 10:06:44 AM

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